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rhino666
#61 Posted : 12 November 2018 20:26:30(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Scottishfiver Go to Quoted Post

Originally Posted by: Chillax Go to Quoted Post

Well, checked oil tonight and it's right up to the mark where it should be Not had a chance to take her out for a run, but a bit worried in case running it causes damage. Thanks Robin, will hopefully get an oil and filter change done asap. Funny how she's never done it before, hopefully the oil change will sort her out!

 

Oh stop being an old woman..man.

It'll be fine! 

Take it out and give it some beans!

  

This is good advice Dave - these don't tend to run top ends even though it often sounds like it.

Mine has two stages of recovery from the pseudo rattle of death, the second takes several mile/minutes of running to clear.

I still remember the old Vauxhall Cavaliers where it meant something. 

 

 

Edited by user 12 November 2018 20:31:01(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

1997 black 1.6i MK1 - 4/12/2002
1991 red 1.6i Eunos - 21/9/2008

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Chillax on 12/11/2018(UTC)
Chillax
#62 Posted : 12 November 2018 20:26:51(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Scottishfiver Go to Quoted Post

Originally Posted by: Chillax Go to Quoted Post

Well, checked oil tonight and it's right up to the mark where it should be Not had a chance to take her out for a run, but a bit worried in case running it causes damage. Thanks Robin, will hopefully get an oil and filter change done asap. Funny how she's never done it before, hopefully the oil change will sort her out!

 

Oh stop being an old woman..man.

It'll be fine! 

Take it out and give it some beans!

 

LOL

Drives: Mk1 Mazda MX5 NA. Life is a journey best travelled with the top down!

Chillax
#63 Posted : 12 November 2018 20:29:41(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: rhino666 Go to Quoted Post

This is good advice Dave - these don't tend to run top ends even though it often sounds like it.

Mine has two stages of recovery from the pseudo rattle of death, the second takes several mile/minutes of running to clear.

I still remember the old Vauxhall Caveliers where it meant something. 

 

Thanks mate, might go take it for a quick run just now

Drives: Mk1 Mazda MX5 NA. Life is a journey best travelled with the top down!

rhino666
#64 Posted : 12 November 2018 20:34:16(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Chillax Go to Quoted Post

Originally Posted by: rhino666 Go to Quoted Post

This is good advice Dave - these don't tend to run top ends even though it often sounds like it.

Mine has two stages of recovery from the pseudo rattle of death, the second takes several mile/minutes of running to clear.

I still remember the old Vauxhall Caveliers where it meant something. 

 

Thanks mate, might go take it for a quick run just now

I would buddy if conditions allow.

Looking forward to the all clear:-)

 

1997 black 1.6i MK1 - 4/12/2002
1991 red 1.6i Eunos - 21/9/2008

Chillax
#65 Posted : 12 November 2018 21:51:50(UTC)
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Just back! And the news is................................ the rattle is gone! Got back to the garage and she's purring like a kitten again, really nice and quiet! Thanks again for the advice guys, spot on as always.

So, seeing as I'm feeling a lot happier, thought I'd take a quick photo of the almost finished wheels (3 finished, 1 still to go into lacquer and 3 wheel caps to go into lacquer)

Ignore the tyres as these are getting binned

Really pleased with them, the finish looks as good as new. Hope you like! Can't wait to get new tyres and get them fitted.

Drives: Mk1 Mazda MX5 NA. Life is a journey best travelled with the top down!

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ATR on 12/11/2018(UTC)
rhino666
#66 Posted : 12 November 2018 22:01:38(UTC)
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Having owned an MX5 MK1 in irregular use since 2002 have got used to the rattle and its temporary nature.

Some claim to have permanently cured it with filter/oil change but I have always accepted it as an inevitable sign that I am not driving her frequently enough:-) 

1997 black 1.6i MK1 - 4/12/2002
1991 red 1.6i Eunos - 21/9/2008

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Chillax on 12/11/2018(UTC)
saz9961
#67 Posted : 13 November 2018 09:59:12(UTC)
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I have gotten into a habit of when I'm parking up, letting the engine tick over for a little while, allowing the engine to cool. Seems to work with respect to HLA. Otherwise, generally its a sign of a cheap 10W 40 oil needing a change. I don't think thats a bad habit.

Note on "Mazda oil filters"; the ones supplied by Mazda Europe are French (Puralator) and smaller, than the ones originally fitted in Japan. Supposedly higher tech. The trick was to get a filter fora Mazda MX6 or similar; its Japanese made.

However, I've for many years used whatever filter the Factors have.

If its rattling badly after being laid up, can be a sign of a blocked oil pump strainer. Revving the engine (going for a drive) as a "fix" can wreck it. Bit more of a harder rattle.
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Chillax on 13/11/2018(UTC)
Chillax
#68 Posted : 13 November 2018 18:47:00(UTC)
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Thanks for the info Saz. Can the oil strainer be removed and cleaned? Where is it located, in the sump?

Drives: Mk1 Mazda MX5 NA. Life is a journey best travelled with the top down!

rhino666
#69 Posted : 13 November 2018 19:33:15(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Chillax Go to Quoted Post

Thanks for the info Saz. Can the oil strainer be removed and cleaned? Where is it located, in the sump?

Dismiss it from your thoughts Dave - sump off job. If required the game is likely over.

Just keep an eye on the oil and top up/change as required.

The MX5 is not hard on oil and your 1.6 should use very little between services.

 

1997 black 1.6i MK1 - 4/12/2002
1991 red 1.6i Eunos - 21/9/2008

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Chillax on 13/11/2018(UTC)
Chillax
#70 Posted : 13 November 2018 21:12:48(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: rhino666 Go to Quoted Post

Originally Posted by: Chillax Go to Quoted Post

Thanks for the info Saz. Can the oil strainer be removed and cleaned? Where is it located, in the sump?

Dismiss it from your thoughts Dave - sump off job. If required the game is likely over.

Just keep an eye on the oil and top up/change as required.

The MX5 is not hard on oil and your 1.6 should use very little between services.

 

Well, going by the level when I bought her a few months ago, she's covered around  400-500 miles (estimate, may be more may be less) and the level when checked the other night is the same, so she hasn't used any oil which is good. Deffo going to get her an oil and filter change as soon as though as the oil does look like it needs changing soon. Not the worst I've seen but she deserves the best.

Unfortunately due to circumstances spending has to stop for the time being. So the service/new tyres will probably need to wait till after the new year now. She probably won't be out very often now anyways seeing as dreaded winter is almost here.

Drives: Mk1 Mazda MX5 NA. Life is a journey best travelled with the top down!

saz9961
#71 Posted : 14 November 2018 00:39:39(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: rhino666 Go to Quoted Post

Originally Posted by: Chillax Go to Quoted Post

Thanks for the info Saz. Can the oil strainer be removed and cleaned? Where is it located, in the sump?

Dismiss it from your thoughts Dave - sump off job. If required the game is likely over.

Just keep an eye on the oil and top up/change as required.

The MX5 is not hard on oil and your 1.6 should use very little between services.

 

 

Not necessarily. Happened to the motor in my 96, 10+ years ago. Difficult job, but not game over. Game over if you rag the engine in a vain attempt to make it go away.

 

More of an issue with the 1.8 though.

rhino666
#72 Posted : 14 November 2018 08:38:47(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: saz9961 Go to Quoted Post

Originally Posted by: rhino666 Go to Quoted Post

Originally Posted by: Chillax Go to Quoted Post

Thanks for the info Saz. Can the oil strainer be removed and cleaned? Where is it located, in the sump?

Dismiss it from your thoughts Dave - sump off job. If required the game is likely over.

Just keep an eye on the oil and top up/change as required.

The MX5 is not hard on oil and your 1.6 should use very little between services.

 

 

Not necessarily. Happened to the motor in my 96, 10+ years ago. Difficult job, but not game over. Game over if you rag the engine in a vain attempt to make it go away.

 

More of an issue with the 1.8 though.

It would be a rare and unfortunate occurence. Autolink are giving 1.6 and 1.8 strainer systems away at a tenner which tells me that a replacement strainer unlikely to be required. This does not fully answer the question though as it looks like an item that is more likely to be removed, cleaned up and refitted.

From my experience the 1.8 engine fails suffers far more than the 1.6. Crank failure from low oil(as burns more oil) and sticking oil rings from being cooked(MK1/Eunos).

Would be interested to know if racing teams/engine rebuilders give the strainer any attention.

Ragging the engine is a waste of time with the typical top end noise - it just goes in its own good time after a couple of minutes of driving on my MK1.

An oil change/better quality oil will improve the situation but if car undriven for weeks as mine is unlikely to completely disappear.              

 

 

1997 black 1.6i MK1 - 4/12/2002
1991 red 1.6i Eunos - 21/9/2008

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Chillax on 14/11/2018(UTC)
Scottishfiver
#73 Posted : 14 November 2018 09:50:14(UTC)
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Dave,

I've PM'd you mate.

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Chillax on 14/11/2018(UTC)
saz9961
#74 Posted : 14 November 2018 12:24:10(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: rhino666 Go to Quoted Post

Originally Posted by: saz9961 Go to Quoted Post

Originally Posted by: rhino666 Go to Quoted Post

Originally Posted by: Chillax Go to Quoted Post

Thanks for the info Saz. Can the oil strainer be removed and cleaned? Where is it located, in the sump?

Dismiss it from your thoughts Dave - sump off job. If required the game is likely over.

Just keep an eye on the oil and top up/change as required.

The MX5 is not hard on oil and your 1.6 should use very little between services.

 

 

Not necessarily. Happened to the motor in my 96, 10+ years ago. Difficult job, but not game over. Game over if you rag the engine in a vain attempt to make it go away.

 

More of an issue with the 1.8 though.

It would be a rare and unfortunate occurence. Autolink are giving 1.6 and 1.8 strainer systems away at a tenner which tells me that a replacement strainer unlikely to be required. This does not fully answer the question though as it looks like an item that is more likely to be removed, cleaned up and refitted.

From my experience the 1.8 engine fails suffers far more than the 1.6. Crank failure from low oil(as burns more oil) and sticking oil rings from being cooked(MK1/Eunos).

Would be interested to know if racing teams/engine rebuilders give the strainer any attention.

Ragging the engine is a waste of time with the typical top end noise - it just goes in its own good time after a couple of minutes of driving on my MK1.

An oil change/better quality oil will improve the situation but if car undriven for weeks as mine is unlikely to completely disappear.              

 

 

Not that uncommon if you look. And the issue is NOT the strainer failing. Its an issue of the strainer blocking, in cars that have been left standing for a while; not at all unusual for MX5s. The repair involves a new oil pump. I imagine a clogged strainer can be cleaned out of the engine; its just a tube with a mesh strainer. When the strainer is blocked, the oil pump is toast.

 

You never heard of plenty of "MX5 experts" recommending an "Italian Tune-up" to sort out HLAs?

 

I'm guessing Autolinkuk can't give these things away because only a dunce would strip down an engine and use scrapyard parts, when new parts are inexpensive. Why would you go to the bother to fit a new oil pump, but not bother to clean the strainer with £5 of kerosene?

 

As I suspect race car operators rarely have a car sitting with sludgey oil, I doubt its an issue. Race teams I know will rebuild the engine over the off season, replacing oil pumps etc. The OP's car has a certain level of unknown history. Garages can be lazy; even a well known MX5 specialist is known to cut corners by using a pump to change oil, rather than a proper drain.

 

Unkown, fresh off the boat JDM motor, sludgey

 

 

Its seems sludge build up is not necessarily due to infrequent changes; sludge build up can be a product of engine design (some engines will cook the oil in the head after shutdown) or poor grades of oil (how many 20 year old MX5s have existed on a diet of Tesco's finest). Heat is a factor.  So a car cooked on a track will rattle like a good un if shut down quickly. Oh, and to include your favourite bete noire, oil impregnated air filters have been implicated.

And HLA rattle is caused by, what for it, a blockage due to sludge. The B6 suffers from that quite a lot, the BP-ZE a bit less so (in my completely meaningless and worthless 20 years experience of these cars). But there are enough recorded instances of strainer blockage on the BP to be a factor worth considering, and not simply dismissed out of hand because you have never seen it on any 1.8 you have owned.

 

Interestingly, the 2001 BP engine included headgasket changes that reduced temperatures on 1 and 2.

 

Oil pumps, in normal service, should last the lifetime of the car. But MX5parts must sell enough to list them as a part. Wonder why that is....

 

 

 

rhino666
#75 Posted : 14 November 2018 13:26:25(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: saz9961 Go to Quoted Post

Not that uncommon if you look. And the issue is NOT the strainer failing. Its an issue of the strainer blocking, in cars that have been left standing for a while; not at all unusual for MX5s. The repair involves a new oil pump. I imagine a clogged strainer can be cleaned out of the engine; its just a tube with a mesh strainer. When the strainer is blocked, the oil pump is toast.

I have looked and not much evidence of this being a common problem

 

You never heard of plenty of "MX5 experts" recommending an "Italian Tune-up" to sort out HLAs?

No! and bad advice which should be ignored from my personal experience of this problem

 

I'm guessing Autolinkuk can't give these things away because only a dunce would strip down an engine and use scrapyard parts, when new parts are inexpensive. Why would you go to the bother to fit a new oil pump, but not bother to clean the strainer with £5 of kerosene?

Agreed - not a lot of point.   

 

As I suspect race car operators rarely have a car sitting with sludgey oil, I doubt its an issue. Race teams I know will rebuild the engine over the off season, replacing oil pumps etc. The OP's car has a certain level of unknown history. Garages can be lazy; even a well known MX5 specialist is known to cut corners by using a pump to change oil, rather than a proper drain.

It's the 1.6 and pretty sure Dave has taken the cam cover off already - would expect it to have been very clean.

 

Unkown, fresh off the boat JDM motor, sludgey

 

 

Its seems sludge build up is not necessarily due to infrequent changes; sludge build up can be a product of engine design (some engines will cook the oil in the head after shutdown) or poor grades of oil (how many 20 year old MX5s have existed on a diet of Tesco's finest). Heat is a factor.  So a car cooked on a track will rattle like a good un if shut down quickly. Oh, and to include your favourite bete noire, oil impregnated air filters have been implicated.

Never seen any sludge buildup in engines I have worked on - would be appalled to see a situation like that and would expect lots of associated problems. You don't agree with the oil impregnated filter theory and MAF damage but lots of evidence indicates you and the K&N PR department are misguided. Certainly room for debate as I remember from the pertinent thread we clashed on.    

And HLA rattle is caused by, what for it, a blockage due to sludge. The B6 suffers from that quite a lot, the BP-ZE a bit less so (in my completely meaningless and worthless 20 years experience of these cars). But there are enough recorded instances of strainer blockage on the BP to be a factor worth considering, and not simply dismissed out of hand because you have never seen it on any 1.8 you have owned.

No sludge in my engine but HLA rattle - strange that! Never owned a 1.8 MX5 as it goes but they seem to have a lot more oil related engine problems than the 1.6. Aware of that from customers experience and engine demand. If you thought for one second that your experience on these cars was meaningless and worthless, you would not argue your points so much. It should be possible for us to debate technical matters without this sort of diatribe. Dave has a 1997 1.6 - what is the point of worrying him with the unlikely source of a standard top end rattle, especially as he took our advice and rattle now gone - well what a surprise that was?        

 

Interestingly, the 2001 BP engine included headgasket changes that reduced temperatures on 1 and 2.

 

Oil pumps, in normal service, should last the lifetime of the car. But MX5parts must sell enough to list them as a part. Wonder why that is....

One old, dodgy review of the £166 pump - that tells me these do not sell in big numbers.  

 

[/quote]

1997 black 1.6i MK1 - 4/12/2002
1991 red 1.6i Eunos - 21/9/2008

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Scottishfiver on 14/11/2018(UTC)
Scottishfiver
#76 Posted : 14 November 2018 13:59:06(UTC)
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Had heads & cam covers off both our 5's over a "paltry" 15 years of joint ownership for a variety of reasons including cam covers.

HLA clatter occasionally on the Mk1 1840cc with both it's mills, but zero sludge like the photos ...mostly the usual staining/varnish patina you would expect.

Why both engines on the Mk1? Simple, ragged it stupid at Croft and cracked a couple of oil rings. Fresh oil etc before I went, but it is an inherent weakness.

Mk2.5's bits were pretty pristine at it's cambelt change as well.

Popped a new cam cover gasket on it last year, looked still brassy & clean in there.

Mind you, it's only done a lowly 101,000 miles so barely run in...........and loves an Italian as much as I do whereupon the next morning it certainly starts as usual with a bit more brio and settles down to a more even and silent tick-over following a week or so of urban boredom. SS Exhaust sounds crisper as well. It is 100% oil tight, ticks over as new and still gives around 34mpg, Spins as sweet as a nut. After.......15 years of "cleaning it out" once every couple of weeks or so. Commonly known as....an Italian Service. Perhaps also why I only had to renew it's rotors & calipers after.......98,000 miles!

They are, after all, small revvy twin cams...so use it.

Both cars get 5k oil changes, main dealer filters, and regular daily use.

Well, the Mk1 is SORN awaiting a full metal resto...after which it's getting the "new" engine fully serviced to include belts and any other stuff not 100%

Meantime, it gets started up once week and revved once fully oil-warmed up to 4/5k for ten minutes or so.

Seems to be the mantra. Regular use, regular oil services.

Modern mainstream oils are pretty epic at keeping engines clean.   

Edited by user 14 November 2018 14:30:37(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Chillax
#77 Posted : 14 November 2018 19:27:00(UTC)
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Thanks for the comments and info guys. I'll deff be giving her a good service and have a good look over her and see what needs replacing.. Been out to garage tonight and fired her up, running nice and quiet, no rattles this time and really smooth. Hopefully an end to the rattle!

Drives: Mk1 Mazda MX5 NA. Life is a journey best travelled with the top down!

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Scottishfiver on 14/11/2018(UTC)
Scottishfiver
#78 Posted : 14 November 2018 20:30:35(UTC)
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Quite.

That is all.

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