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Paul W
#21 Posted : 15 September 2018 10:59:46(UTC)
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If you really wanted to replace an obsolete aircon unit, maybe this might be adaptable for an MX-5:

https://www.carbuilderso...act-air-conditioning-kit
Mk2 1.8i, built Jan 1998.
Bettabuilda
#22 Posted : 15 September 2018 11:51:07(UTC)
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"But interesting Barrie as mine had five bolts, four M10's through the side, and a long M8 through a rubber bush in the front."

It wouldn't surprise me in the least that there are 5 bolts  the old grey cells are slipping away quite rapidly these days! It was a few years ago when I did the job  Not sure where they escape to though  Have you got the non aircon connecting tube for linking up the cabin air flow? I also looped the A/C switch connector together so it could be used to operate the fan seperately if needed. AC = Additional Cooling 

Barrie

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'91 Eunos, classic red, 2nd place in modified mk1 at 2015 Spring Rally Oulton Park.
saz9961
#23 Posted : 15 September 2018 13:34:15(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Paul W Go to Quoted Post
If you really wanted to replace an obsolete aircon unit, maybe this might be adaptable for an MX-5:

https://www.carbuildersolutions.com/uk/compact-air-conditioning-kit

 

One of the features on the Roadster aircon system is the clutch on the compressor. At WOT, the system declutches, so there are no parasitic power losses. My CRX in Alabama didn't have this, and, boy, could you feel it when the aircon was on (sapped a lot of power, and fuel consumption went up). So a universal system I'd expect to be crippling to performance of a little 1.6.

 

I suppose it might be feasible to retrofit a system out of a later car (NB-FL) to an early NA.

drturbo
#24 Posted : 15 September 2018 17:24:42(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Bettabuilda Go to Quoted Post

"But interesting Barrie as mine had five bolts, four M10's through the side, and a long M8 through a rubber bush in the front."

It wouldn't surprise me in the least that there are 5 bolts  the old grey cells are slipping away quite rapidly these days! It was a few years ago when I did the job  Not sure where they escape to though  Have you got the non aircon connecting tube for linking up the cabin air flow? I also looped the A/C switch connector together so it could be used to operate the fan seperately if needed. AC = Additional Cooling 

Barrie

 

The evaporator is just the only part I have to remove, when I've got the pipe I'll remove it.

I'll strip and repaint the AC fan and if it looks ok I'll put it back and use the AC switch for the fan, good idea that, as its got a pressed steel frame it looks a bit tatty at 27 years old, but it should come up ok... I do like the look of a rad with twin fans..

 

Anyway, off to cut down and refit the AC bolts, before I forget!!

Mark

Doctorates in several areas, car related, electrical, guitar amps, lawn mowers, tractors..... oh, and turbo's. Just not Windows 10!

1991 NA Eunos 1.6, Classic red
1996 NA 1.8iS, Brilliant Black
2016 Mazda 3 2.0 Sport Black, Soul Red
2011 Suzuki Alto SZ4, Silky Silver
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Bettabuilda on 15/09/2018(UTC)
missfire
#25 Posted : 15 September 2018 17:57:42(UTC)
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You don't really need a new connecting tube.Remove evap housing complete ,then remove the ali evap from the plastic and refit without the a/c part. You will need to blank off the pipe entry section .Use tank/gaffer tape or find a suitable grommet.
Paul W
#26 Posted : 15 September 2018 21:34:16(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: saz9961 Go to Quoted Post

Originally Posted by: Paul W Go to Quoted Post
If you really wanted to replace an obsolete aircon unit, maybe this might be adaptable for an MX-5:

https://www.carbuildersolutions.com/uk/compact-air-conditioning-kit

 

One of the features on the Roadster aircon system is the clutch on the compressor. At WOT, the system declutches, so there are no parasitic power losses. My CRX in Alabama didn't have this, and, boy, could you feel it when the aircon was on (sapped a lot of power, and fuel consumption went up). So a universal system I'd expect to be crippling to performance of a little 1.6.

 

I suppose it might be feasible to retrofit a system out of a later car (NB-FL) to an early NA.

The aircon unit uses the existing compressor and drive so there is new reason why it would use any more power than the original Aircon.

 

 

Mk2 1.8i, built Jan 1998.
saz9961
#27 Posted : 16 September 2018 07:26:28(UTC)
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There is greater demand for aircon in the US and rockauto.com carry a lot of  Miata-specific pattern, remanufactured parts and rebuilt kits. A Four Seasons rebuilt compressor for a 1990 car is £230 plus shipping. Condensors are about £50. Evaporator cores are £25-30. Driers are less than £10. The only part they are struggling to get are replacement compressor clutches.

Conversion kit, £6

https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=1251685&cc=1190876&jsn=418

Chinese made, so likely not a long life.

Edited by user 16 September 2018 12:24:17(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

 1 user thanked saz9961 for this useful post.
Martin Young on 18/09/2018(UTC)
Martin Young
#28 Posted : 18 September 2018 10:03:40(UTC)
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Thanks for the Rockauto link.  I had intended to repurpose my old AC condenser as a chargecooler radiator but it was so corroded I didn't trust it and bodged a bracket to fit a generic one instead.  If I'd known you could buy new ones I'd have given that a try.

'94 Roadster + MP62
rhino666
#29 Posted : 18 September 2018 10:48:32(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: saz9961 Go to Quoted Post

 

There is greater demand for aircon in the US and rockauto.com carry a lot of  Miata-specific pattern, remanufactured parts and rebuilt kits. A Four Seasons rebuilt compressor for a 1990 car is £230 plus shipping. Condensors are about £50. Evaporator cores are £25-30. Driers are less than £10. The only part they are struggling to get are replacement compressor clutches.

Conversion kit, £6

https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=1251685&cc=1190876&jsn=418

Chinese made, so likely not a long life.

The problem here(backed up by ebay listings) is that the Miata appears to have been fitted with the 1.8 style of aircon with R134A refrigerant. Very useful if you have a MK1/Eunos 1.8(1993 - 8) that requires aircon spares, particularly the condenser which appears to be impossible to source in the UK.

Ebay US also list the clutch kit but from my experience they rarely fail on the 1.8 style of compressor which appears to be more robust than the UK 1.6 version.

This looks to be a worthwhile 1.8 condenser purchase......................

EBAY US 1.8 condenser

Be interested to hear if anyone has successfully installed a US purchased condenser and what, if any fitting issues arose.    

Unfortunately no use for the original poster or any MK1/Eunos 1.6 car owner with the totally different R12 system.        

 

Edited by user 18 September 2018 11:09:04(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

1997 black 1.6i MK1 - 4/12/2002
1991 red 1.6i Eunos - 21/9/2008

saz9961
#30 Posted : 18 September 2018 12:19:16(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: rhino666 Go to Quoted Post

Originally Posted by: saz9961 Go to Quoted Post

 

There is greater demand for aircon in the US and rockauto.com carry a lot of  Miata-specific pattern, remanufactured parts and rebuilt kits. A Four Seasons rebuilt compressor for a 1990 car is £230 plus shipping. Condensors are about £50. Evaporator cores are £25-30. Driers are less than £10. The only part they are struggling to get are replacement compressor clutches.

Conversion kit, £6

https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=1251685&cc=1190876&jsn=418

Chinese made, so likely not a long life.

The problem here(backed up by ebay listings) is that the Miata appears to have been fitted with the 1.8 style of aircon with R134A refrigerant. Very useful if you have a MK1/Eunos 1.8(1993 - 8) that requires aircon spares, particularly the condenser which appears to be impossible to source in the UK.

Ebay US also list the clutch kit but from my experience they rarely fail on the 1.8 style of compressor which appears to be more robust than the UK 1.6 version.

This looks to be a worthwhile 1.8 condenser purchase......................

EBAY US 1.8 condenser

Be interested to hear if anyone has successfully installed a US purchased condenser and what, if any fitting issues arose.    

Unfortunately no use for the original poster or any MK1/Eunos 1.6 car owner with the totally different R12 system.        

 

 

All 90-93 Miatas were offered with R12. Why the hell do you think one of the most popular questions posted on miataforum is how to convert R12 to R134a, and whether the Walmart kits are any good?

for example;

https://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=333677

 

US part number, page 84 onwards or thereabouts:

https://www.miata.net/garage/90-99Parts/90/MX5%2090%202%20OF%203%20BODY.pdf

 

JDM part numbers, early cars:

http://do-da.co.jp/sun-mec/na61/na61_6130.html

http://do-da.co.jp/sun-mec/na61/na61_6140.html

http://do-da.co.jp/sun-mec/na61/na61_6150.html

I haven't been through all the part numbers; you have more time than me, but I don't see any significant difference in part numbers. The only Miata parts that are likely different will be some pipes.

 

R134a didn't start to appear in new cars until 1992. R12 was phased out in 1995

 

While aircon might have been offered in the UK as a factory option, in 20 years, I have never come across a UK Mk1 fitted with aircon, so somewhat intrigued by your experience of UK cars having unique air conditioning parts.

rhino666
#31 Posted : 18 September 2018 12:49:51(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: saz9961 Go to Quoted Post

Originally Posted by: rhino666 Go to Quoted Post

Originally Posted by: saz9961 Go to Quoted Post

 

There is greater demand for aircon in the US and rockauto.com carry a lot of  Miata-specific pattern, remanufactured parts and rebuilt kits. A Four Seasons rebuilt compressor for a 1990 car is £230 plus shipping. Condensors are about £50. Evaporator cores are £25-30. Driers are less than £10. The only part they are struggling to get are replacement compressor clutches.

Conversion kit, £6

https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=1251685&cc=1190876&jsn=418

Chinese made, so likely not a long life.

The problem here(backed up by ebay listings) is that the Miata appears to have been fitted with the 1.8 style of aircon with R134A refrigerant. Very useful if you have a MK1/Eunos 1.8(1993 - 8) that requires aircon spares, particularly the condenser which appears to be impossible to source in the UK.

Ebay US also list the clutch kit but from my experience they rarely fail on the 1.8 style of compressor which appears to be more robust than the UK 1.6 version.

This looks to be a worthwhile 1.8 condenser purchase......................

EBAY US 1.8 condenser

Be interested to hear if anyone has successfully installed a US purchased condenser and what, if any fitting issues arose.    

Unfortunately no use for the original poster or any MK1/Eunos 1.6 car owner with the totally different R12 system.        

 

 

All 90-93 Miatas were offered with R12. Why the hell do you think one of the most popular questions posted on miataforum is how to convert R12 to R134a, and whether the Walmart kits are any good?

for example;

https://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=333677

 

US part number, page 84 onwards or thereabouts:

https://www.miata.net/garage/90-99Parts/90/MX5%2090%202%20OF%203%20BODY.pdf

 

JDM part numbers, early cars:

http://do-da.co.jp/sun-mec/na61/na61_6130.html

http://do-da.co.jp/sun-mec/na61/na61_6140.html

http://do-da.co.jp/sun-mec/na61/na61_6150.html

I haven't been through all the part numbers; you have more time than me, but I don't see any significant difference in part numbers. The only Miata parts that are likely different will be some pipes.

 

R134a didn't start to appear in new cars until 1992. R12 was phased out in 1995

 

While aircon might have been offered in the UK as a factory option, in 20 years, I have never come across a UK Mk1 fitted with aircon, so somewhat intrigued by your experience of UK cars having unique air conditioning parts.

 

Oh dear!

Simply find me evidence that there was a Miata fitted with the same condenser and compressor as our 1.6 MK1 / Eunos if it is that important to you. I have looked at the spares available and there appears to be none, new or secondhand.

Certainly your link to Rock Auto was for 1.8 spares which are utterly useless for the system required on a 1991 Eunos.

This is about passing on useful information and it would help if you did not take the logic of my post personally. 

I appear to have more time than you..............really!!

 

 

 

Edited by user 18 September 2018 12:51:18(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

1997 black 1.6i MK1 - 4/12/2002
1991 red 1.6i Eunos - 21/9/2008

Jerakeen
#32 Posted : 18 September 2018 12:59:03(UTC)
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Was it just the early 1.6 cars that had R12? I've just bought a very early 1.8 (1993) and the air con isn't working. I assume because it needs gas. It's a pre facelift one with the same straight indicator and wiper stalks as my 1989 1.6. Would that be R134a or R12?
1990 Classic Red NA 1.6 undergoing restoration
1993 Laguna Blue NA 1.8
rhino666
#33 Posted : 18 September 2018 13:30:06(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Betty_Swallocks Go to Quoted Post
Was it just the early 1.6 cars that had R12? I've just bought a very early 1.8 (1993) and the air con isn't working. I assume because it needs gas. It's a pre facelift one with the same straight indicator and wiper stalks as my 1989 1.6. Would that be R134a or R12?

All of the MK1 style Eunos 1.6 cars had the R12 system, 1989 - 1998. 

All of the MK1 style Eunos 1.8 cars had the R134a system, 1993 - 1998.

If any of these systems are recharged, the refrigerant used will be a drop in replacement for the original R12 and R134a refrigerants.     

 

1997 black 1.6i MK1 - 4/12/2002
1991 red 1.6i Eunos - 21/9/2008

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Jerakeen on 20/09/2018(UTC)
rhino666
#34 Posted : 20 September 2018 10:08:47(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: rhino666 Go to Quoted Post

Originally Posted by: saz9961 Go to Quoted Post

I haven't been through all the part numbers; you have more time than me, but I don't see any significant difference in part numbers. The only Miata parts that are likely different will be some pipes.

Simply find me evidence that there was a Miata fitted with the same condenser and compressor as our 1.6 MK1 / Eunos if it is that important to you. I have looked at the spares available and there appears to be none, new or secondhand.

Disappointed not to hear back from you - a reply of any sort would have been most interesting.


R12 was indeed the refrigerant used in new cars up until around 1993. The 1.6 Eunos compressor and condenser are totally different to the ones fitted to the Miata. Although part numbers have changed, the Miata compressor used for both R12 and R134a(HFC134a) appears to be exactly the same part. In the US this compressor was used from 1991 until 2003/4. There was a similar but apparently different spec pump used with R12 before 1991. I have four Eunos 1.8 compressors at the moment from 1993 - 95 cars - they all have the same spec and part number 442500-2590. US Miata 1.6 compressors from the same years have exactly the same part number. I cannot be sure if the new miata condenser for the same era from Rock Auto/ebay would fit or could easily be modified to fit a Eunos 1.8. Look forward to hearing from someone who could confirm this. From my experience the Eunos 1.8/Miata 1.6 compressor is a better part than the Eunos 1.6 compressor. The ports are different and in different positions and the four mount holes are different too. Not sure if the individual manifolds would adjust to a similar mount on the engine block but suspect so. The way forward for tired Eunos 1.6 aircon compressors is to change to the 1.8 version or more recent equivalent available for the Miata in the US. Has anyone already done this?


R12 was apparently the most efficient refrigerant but as a CFC, damaged the environment. In 1993/4 new Miata/Eunos were fitted with R134a, later known as HFC134a(in the US anyway). R134a leaks through seals designed for R12 and the PAG oil used in the compressor is different. I guess that in the early days there was no drop in replacement for R12 so the only choice when an R12 system needed recharging for whatever reason was R134a. Nowadays it's a no brainer as there is a drop in for R12 albeit less efficient and far more expensive. I think it is still RS24. Back in the day people had to convert their aircon to R134a so adapters required, all seals replaced and a new drier fitted. The PAG oil in the system(ND oil 7) had to be removed as incompatible with R134a and ND oil 9 added. I thought that R134a had been phased out too but it is still available along with drop in replacements. I guess that all R134a or equivalent products will have the same issues with use in an R12 system.


Not encountered a UK spec MK1 with factory fitted aircon or indeed with an originally fitted auto gearbox. That is not to say that they are not out there somewhere, just that I have not found one. All Eunos 1.6 cars with aircon I have dealt with have the R12 system with specific Denso compressor
Not sure what year this system ceased to be fitted to new cars but as R134a was fitted to the eunos 1.8 from 1993, one would think it would be 1993. Would be interested to know if anyone has a later manufactured Eunos 1.6 with aircon and what system is fitted.

1997 black 1.6i MK1 - 4/12/2002
1991 red 1.6i Eunos - 21/9/2008

Jerakeen
#35 Posted : 07 October 2018 17:31:59(UTC)
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Just a point I think worth mentioning.

If your air con does work and you want it to continue to work make sure you switch it on regularly.

The refrigerant gas also circulates lubricant and if it isn't used the seals dry up and all the gas leaks out.

I know from experience. When I got my last Eunos the air con was working perfectly. Blowing out really cold. But I didn't use it and a couple of years later when I did turn it on for some reason I found there was no gas in it at all.

1990 Classic Red NA 1.6 undergoing restoration
1993 Laguna Blue NA 1.8
Drumtochty
#36 Posted : 07 October 2018 18:39:54(UTC)
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I have noticed in the past few years that SAZ has been mixing his usual excellent posts with posts that are way off the mark and then having a go at posters who are giving well researched information. He appears to think that these posters will take a good shouting at by "Daddy Saz" and go away and hide.

Sorry but he is just doing this a bit too much recently and he should get back to only posting where he has good quality data.
Eddie Cairns

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08 Mk3 2.0 Sport RC sold
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