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Warbird
#21 Posted : 01 October 2018 13:01:30(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Jerakeen Go to Quoted Post

To be honest when I saw some of the cars in the competition I started looking around for the trailers they must have been brought to the show on because I couldn't believe they'd actually seen the road for any significant mileage for years.

There was one I noticed had the gaps between the treads on the tyres polished.

Mine is driven all year round including in snow and ice I just spend some time now and then looking after it.

 

2014 mk3.75 2.0 ltr Sport Venture, Cobra Race back box
1990 mk1 1.6 Eunos.
wolves mx5
#22 Posted : 01 October 2018 13:04:56(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Jerakeen Go to Quoted Post

To be honest when I saw some of the cars in the competition I started looking around for the trailers they must have been brought to the show on because I couldn't believe they'd actually seen the road for any significant mileage for years.

There was one I noticed had the gaps between the treads on the tyres polished.

 

That might have been mine. The gaps between the tyres weren't polished. The tyres were treated with 303 which runs down into the tread and after a quick brush makes them look new. a 5 minute job.

The car is as I'm sure most are used as I'm sure most if not all entered are. In fact over the last three years she's been to Holland, Belgium and Ireland.... hell I even use it in the rain!

 

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Bettabuilda on 01/10/2018(UTC)
Roadie
#23 Posted : 01 October 2018 13:08:02(UTC)
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Can't believe how ungrateful you are being after having the audacity to actually admit to having sat on the seats of a car you entered into the competition. There have even been other people sitting on them in the past. Next thing you will be telling us is that the engine has been started since the plugs and filters were changed.

I mean honestly, do you really think these cars are for driving?

On a more serious note I think it would be helpful if judges were to offer advice about things that can be dealt with before judging as in 'Wipe the flies off the number plate or you will lose points'. Comments about creased leather must have been very deflating and I understand your disappointment.

How about somebody entering a wreck next year and we all agree to vote for it to show the judges?

 

 

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Bettabuilda on 01/10/2018(UTC)
Sonue
#24 Posted : 01 October 2018 13:13:33(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Roadie Go to Quoted Post

 

 

How about somebody entering a wreck next year and we all agree to vote for it to show the judges?

 

 

After listening to the judge I think I did that this year....lol

 

Eunos Roadster S Limited.
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Scottishfiver
#25 Posted : 01 October 2018 13:35:05(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Sonue Go to Quoted Post

Originally Posted by: Roadie Go to Quoted Post

 

 

How about somebody entering a wreck next year and we all agree to vote for it to show the judges?

 

 

After listening to the judge I think I did that this year....lol 

 

 

Ever the gentleman.

Unfortunately.

I find a quiet in the ear request referring simultaneous secks & travel most edifying tack...sometimes...on special occasions.

Now, next year, I'll lend you mine. 

That'll keep 'im busy.

In fact, he'll have galloping PTSD by the time he's done.

Edited by user 01 October 2018 13:36:03(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Paul W
#26 Posted : 01 October 2018 13:38:06(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: saz9961 Go to Quoted Post

Originally Posted by: Paul W Go to Quoted Post
I didn't attend the rally yesterday (due to a family business commitment in the morning and evening) but I wouldn't even bother to enter my Mk2 because I've seen the lengths the prize winners have to go to (and in some cases the cars look like they are museum display pieces not for driving). My car is for driving, not for showing off.

But it's strange how some people can't resist any opportunity to try to "put down" cars belonging others, or in some cases, talk utter rubbish. I have another little sports car (not a Mazda), built by myself from a bare chassis. I often get these "experts" who come up and spout complete nonsense about it while they try to "educate" those there with them (including me at times). This actually occurred yesterday afternoon. I got a chance to drive the car for a couple of hours and stopped for a coffee in a bikers' cafe. I hadn't even got out of the car before a group of bikers came over to see it. The group "geek" appeared and immediately started telling his pals how these cars were built from Citroen parts etc etc. It's definitely NOT Citroen (has no connection with that company whatsoever) and I couldn't help correcting him (wish I'd let him dig a bigger hole for himself in retrospect). I don't think he believed me; I pointed out that the car wasn't front wheel drive for a start. He seemed quite taken aback and walked off!

 

There is a slight Citroen connection

 

And on the back of every Eunos Roadster handbook and service book:

 

Citroens were sold in Japan through Eunos dealerships, and were included in model brochures.

 

In the paragraph of mine you actually quoted I said it wasn't a Mazda!

It's not a Eunos either, btw - the clue is in the  words "bare chassis".

Mk2 1.8i, built Jan 1998.
RichardFX
#27 Posted : 01 October 2018 13:50:31(UTC)
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Two years ago I considered entering, partly because I had seen so few cars in the competitions.  How hard could it be? 

I managed to get hold of the info on how my car would be scored, and after I had 'judged' it myself I scored it less than 40.  Even if I spent many, many hours and pounds on it, it would never get past 80.  Ergo, no competition.

Soon after that I was looking at a new car to replace the old broken Vectra, and none of the NEW cars in the showrooms with just a couple of delivery miles would have scored better than very low 90s because they had so many sillies that would have been picked up on.

And yet most people who don't know about these things who glance at mine say 'Wow that looks fantastic.  It's so clean!'  I think this goes for the majority of our cars.  We enjoy driving them, we keep them in good shape, do a bit of regular fettling, and hope we've done enough to keep the rust away.

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Scottishfiver on 01/10/2018(UTC), Bettabuilda on 01/10/2018(UTC)
Sonue
#28 Posted : 01 October 2018 14:01:30(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Scottishfiver Go to Quoted Post

Originally Posted by: Sonue Go to Quoted Post

Originally Posted by: Roadie Go to Quoted Post

 

 

How about somebody entering a wreck next year and we all agree to vote for it to show the judges?

 

 

After listening to the judge I think I did that this year....lol 

 

 

Ever the gentleman.

Unfortunately.

I find a quiet in the ear request referring simultaneous secks & travel most edifying tack...sometimes...on special occasions.

Now, next year, I'll lend you mine. 

That'll keep 'im busy.

In fact, he'll have galloping PTSD by the time he's done.

That's not too bad. I have seen worse wrecks pass an MOT and are still being driven. If you don't believe me log into the MG Owners club!

 

lol

 

Eunos Roadster S Limited.
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Scottishfiver on 01/10/2018(UTC)
Speedy aka Ian
#29 Posted : 01 October 2018 14:17:38(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Jerakeen Go to Quoted Post

To be honest when I saw some of the cars in the competition I started looking around for the trailers they must have been brought to the show on because I couldn't believe they'd actually seen the road for any significant mileage for years.

There was one I noticed had the gaps between the treads on the tyres polished.

My Red MK1 won the Modified class. Having won a competition or two with not only this MK1 but also with my previous concours MK1 old habits die hard and I do use tyre black on my treads when in competition. The MK1 was driven eighty miles to the event. The only trailers I noticed on the day were for traders vehicles.

 

 

 

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1st 'Modern Classic' Stafford Castle Classic Show July 2018
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H1S VRB
#30 Posted : 01 October 2018 14:34:51(UTC)
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Sent you a PM, Sonue.

Steve

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pjr
#31 Posted : 01 October 2018 15:02:08(UTC)
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Well done for at least entering, the judges should offer constructive criticism otherwise nobody will bother if they feel the treatment is harsh.

Judging can be a matter of personal preference in addition to the judging guidelines, some possibly unusual decisions have been made before now, you and all the other entrants made the effort and were able to give us cars to look at and admire and for that alone, you all deserve commending.

I like my cars to look reasonable but the effort required to reach the standards required to be a winner are well beyond my patience. Too many other things to do 

Edited by user 01 October 2018 15:02:46(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

2013 Zeal red 2.0 SportTech Nav, BBR Super-duper kit, colour matched dash insert and lots of little bits.
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Scottishfiver on 01/10/2018(UTC), Bettabuilda on 01/10/2018(UTC)
Scottishfiver
#32 Posted : 01 October 2018 15:17:34(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Warbird Go to Quoted Post

Originally Posted by: Jerakeen Go to Quoted Post

To be honest when I saw some of the cars in the competition I started looking around for the trailers they must have been brought to the show on because I couldn't believe they'd actually seen the road for any significant mileage for years.

There was one I noticed had the gaps between the treads on the tyres polished.

Mine is driven all year round including in snow and ice I just spend some time now and then looking after it.

 

 

I do detect a microscopic hint of oxide on the backplate?

What a shocker...pun.

I'll give you a tenner for the lot.

saz9961
#33 Posted : 01 October 2018 15:26:35(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Scottishfiver Go to Quoted Post

Originally Posted by: Warbird Go to Quoted Post

Originally Posted by: Jerakeen Go to Quoted Post

To be honest when I saw some of the cars in the competition I started looking around for the trailers they must have been brought to the show on because I couldn't believe they'd actually seen the road for any significant mileage for years.

There was one I noticed had the gaps between the treads on the tyres polished.

Mine is driven all year round including in snow and ice I just spend some time now and then looking after it.

 

 

I do detect a microscopic hint of oxide on the backplate?

What a shocker...pun.

I'll give you a tenner for the lot.

  I assume to just show off a disc

Missing the rubber bellows on the upper caliper sliding pin, and no pads 

Edited by user 01 October 2018 15:27:30(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Andrew5
#34 Posted : 01 October 2018 16:01:31(UTC)
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Sadly I wasn't at the show yesterday to see all these wonderful cars on display and from what I see and hear it looks like I missed one of the best shows, well done to the club for putting on another great show.
 
I think the OP has a very valid point in his original post about his car with original seats competing against cars that have had a complete interior refurb, not sure if you mean a refurb to original spec or custom interior but having entered a few of these competitions in the past I wonder if there needs to be some clearer clarification on categories or are some of the cars being entered into the wrong categories as the competition rule book hasn't been read properly, the clubs judging manual has been very well written  and explains what determines categories easily and if we read page 8 of the current judging manual we have this,  I have highlighted some key words
 
Lightly modified class,  Interior – Seats must be of Standard Type. Must retain interior finishes, any carpet is allowed. Stock dash needs to be retained but modifications of stock gauges are allowed if mounted in same place. 
 
Modified class  Interior - Any seats, any dash modifications (gauges, etc.), any restraint devices, any roll bars or cages, accessories, etc., are allowed. Gutting of the interior is permitted. 
 
In the past I have seen and competed against cars in the NC (MK3) section lightly modified class that have had seats retrimed  to non standard finish, carbon fibre bonnets, surely then going by the rules that lightly modified class should have seats of standard type if you have retrimmed seats ( and I am presuming door trims etc ) carbon fibre panels these cars should be in the modified class?
 
And if we look at exterior we have this,.
 
Lightly modified class, Exterior - Mazda Body kits are allowed. Stock paint colour only, is allowed. Any tyres and wheels that fit under stock wheel openings (must not protrude past the wheel well by more than 12mm). 
 
Any exhaust system with road silencers, driving/fog lights, or suspension modifications are permitted. 
 
And for modified section we have this,
 
Modified class, Exterior - Any bolt-on or moulded-in body kits except kits that radically alter the lines of the vehicle, any wheels and tyres, any exhaust, lowering or raising chassis height, and any suspension modifications are permitted.
 
Again I have seen cars with lowered suspension in lightly modified class but going by the rule book if it's lowered should it actually be in the modified class? 
 
 
 
For me the competitions are fun to do as I have quite a distance to get to the show  and being a small part of the show and chatting to other exhibitors about their cars adds to the fun but It seems that after each show there is always some sort of annoyance about having cars judged fairly.
 
I know it says on the national rally homepage,
 
Standard Car Class - Factory standard car, Mazda genuine accessories only.
Light Modification - Some cosmetic and light modifications with aftermarket accessories (most members cars are in this category)
Modified - Numerous enthusiast modifications and also forced induction cars (*except where standard fit)
Ultra Modified - Radical vehicle alteration, e.g retro body kit or MX-5 kit build.
Daily Driver - Accessible category for cars in regular use. Age & mileage limits apply (bodywork & cabin judged only
 
The first time I entered a competition I thought this to be a bit vague about which type of modification determined which category and the completion rules do need to be read thoroughly to work out which category to enter, maybe some competitors are not reading the full rules. Maybe some basic criteria should be on this and entry forms to help entrants to determine which category to enter, for example it could be rewritten as, 
 
Standard Car Class - Factory standard car, Mazda genuine accessories only.
 
Light Modification - Some cosmetic and light modifications with aftermarket accessories, must retain original colour , seats must be of standard type
 
Modified - Numerous enthusiast modifications and also forced induction cars (*except where standard fit) any colour, non standard body panels, lowered suspension,  interior  retrim , engine power upgrades.
 
Ultra Modified - Radical vehicle alteration, e.g retro body kit or MX-5 kit build.
 
Daily Driver - Accessible category for cars in regular use. Age & mileage limits apply (bodywork & cabin judged only
 
As for my car, hasn't seen to many miles this year due to life getting in the way but it has seen its fair share of narrow country roads with grass growing up the middle, and even going to the rallies sat out on the top deck of a ferry overnight getting covered in sea spray,  it does get dirty,  I don't know Ian Cummins with Bluebird manages to keep his so good.
 
Thoughts, 
 
Sonue
#35 Posted : 01 October 2018 16:43:01(UTC)
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Please everyone don't take this the wrong way but I am worried that the very hard working people who put these events on will feel aggrieved if this thread gets taken the wrong way.

Andrew there were cars in the MK1 lightly modified class with completely refurbed seats (not resembling stock) and those with original seats.

 

Just for the record I did ask for clarification of the class I should enter and some helpful people on this forum advised me to enter lightly modified even though today I have received a very pleasant message from Mal advising that he didn't know why I didn't enter the standard class?

The matter of the seats is just a small and quite insignificant matter really. I only pointed out that I can't see how a car with original sets (in very good condition albeit suffering from a few creases) can be fairly judged against a car in the same category which has had a full interior refurb.

 

I have considered this all day and read everyone's helpful comments. I have also received a very nice message from Steve Clarke.

 

It all boils down to this............people with original cars (special editions) who may "titivate" them (add a wind blocker, vapour blast the inlet manifold etc  - mainly cosmetic changes but generally keep the originality) are not catered for in the current classifications.

Therefore, unless there is a change I will not be entering the car in a future event. I certainly do not mind being paced 4th or 5th if the judging/categorisation is fair but it does rankle a bit when the category contains such a wide range of cars. I don't feel as though the car has been judged with its peers.

 

Grant

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by user 01 October 2018 16:55:57(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Eunos Roadster S Limited.
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Bettabuilda on 01/10/2018(UTC)
Paul W
#36 Posted : 01 October 2018 18:03:49(UTC)
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Yes, I agree with much of the above (and wouldn't strongly disagree with any of it - horses for courses etc).

My own Mk2 probably wouldn't fit into any of the classes either - although it appears to be one of the very first NBs made and otherwise almost original I replaced the original fabric seats with separate headrests with NBFL high backed (creased) leather seats, which would soon be picked up as a fault. But this "modification" allows me to drive the car without getting the raging backache the original fabric seat gave me.

Also, the paintwork is mainly original (the car has never been welded in the usual places) and is by no means pristine enough for me to want to show it in a competition against other cars that have been given a full respray at some time or another.

It's not a daily driver, either. So it stays quietly in the main car park at club events.

Mk2 1.8i, built Jan 1998.
John M
#37 Posted : 01 October 2018 19:00:11(UTC)
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I enjoy looking at the competition cars but can't imagine myself ever wanting to do all the under-bonnet stuff beyond getting it clean, and I have no interest in adding bling - but it's entertaining to see it.

I particularly enjoy seeing cars that are not only fairly standard but also largely original - seats for example and interiors generally are inevitably going to look more that a bit patinated after 20 years or more, and to my mind shouldn't in themselves debar a car from being shown or even winning a prize, although I appreciate that there are different classes and maybe such a car would fit in somewhere.

Well done for entering.  I looked at all the cars in the competition yesterday and I didn't see any that I thought shouldn't be there.

Edited by user 01 October 2018 19:00:56(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

2017 Arctic #320
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Bettabuilda on 01/10/2018(UTC)
Bettabuilda
#38 Posted : 01 October 2018 19:17:42(UTC)
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As a competitor in the rally shows, both as a winner and a loser, over the last few years, I wasn't aware of the rule book as described by previous poster? Having said that, why would I be? I've always worked off the list of categories provided to assist in completing the entry application form. Not disimilar to the last listing of said posting. I'm aware that no modified mk3's were entered in that particular classification this year, all were either daily driver or lightly modified. Now, the extensive ( in some cases ) list of modifications submitted as part of the application for entry, should determine the classification, or am I missing something there? Shouldn't the competitions folk carry out that determination? I don't want to overload the already, extremely hard working folk that carry out this task but should it be left to the entrants to decide on the classification for their car? It appears that my car should have been in modified class rather than lightly modified based on that earlier post, quoting the rule book that I wasn't aware of. It also appears that a lot of other competition entrants weren'/aren't aware of this either. I've often wondered why my car in its previous iteration had been up against turbo charged cars? Well, it's done for this year but well done to all competition entrants, even if we've been in the wrong places, as without us, there wouldn't be competitions. Based on what I witnessed on Sunday, it's a very popular section of the rally  and certainly draws the crowds!

Barrie

 

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'91 Eunos, classic red, 2nd place in modified mk1 at 2015 Spring Rally Oulton Park.
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Andrew5 on 01/10/2018(UTC)
Roadie
#39 Posted : 01 October 2018 19:59:23(UTC)
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The real problem here is that the judging criteria and confusing categories puts the vast majority of members off entering. This then means that some categories only receive very low numbers of entries and sometimes none.

I don't want to denigrate any of the excellent entrants but the same ones turn up time and time again. Beautiful to look at but of a standard that most owners don't have the time, money or patience to achieve.

I'm all for having a category for cars that look better than the day they were built but personally I would like to see a bit more variety. Who doesn't like to see a much loved twenty year old special edition? If the original seats are there but have a bit of cracking and wear on the driver's bolster who cares?

My favourite category never actually gets judged. It's called the car park. I can spend more time and get more pleasure looking up and down the rows than looking at the competition entries. So many cars, so many mods, so many nice little personal touches.  

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Sonue on 01/10/2018(UTC), Bettabuilda on 01/10/2018(UTC), Scottishfiver on 02/10/2018(UTC)
Andrew5
#40 Posted : 01 October 2018 19:59:56(UTC)
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Bettabuilda, only recently seen the build thread on your car, amazing the way it's turned out, very smart indeed, you must be very pleased, well done. What's next for it?

Edited by user 01 October 2018 20:00:27(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Bettabuilda on 01/10/2018(UTC)
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