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mal jones
#81 Posted : 04 October 2018 13:41:40(UTC)
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[quote=harco;753135]

This is so sad to see, but makes me glad I did not even bother to enter as the whole judging thing sounds a bit too up its own a*** to me

The entrants are enthusiasts not professionals and should not made to be deflated because there is a slight mark on paintwork.

I did suggest to the organisers a couple of years back that we should have a "peoples choice" award. Where the flyer that everyone gets on entry contains a tear off slip that the individual can deposit in a box (supplied by those who wish to enter) in the individual car they wish to vote for. The slips are added up and the winner announced. Simples...

The beauty is that this could also contain cars in the general parking area who wish to show off their beauty without the formality of the entry and apparent over scrutinising of the official competitions.

I will raise the point again when next I speak to Iain. 

THE Peoples Choice was tried and it did not work.

If you think the whole judging think is a bit too up its own a***, perhaps you could try it yourself. Also could all posters look up the definition of the word COMPETITION.

If there id any one out there who thinks they can go a better job now is the time to stand up and be counted. Come to the AGM on the 20th and be counted.

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Speedy aka Ian
#82 Posted : 04 October 2018 13:42:12(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: harco Go to Quoted Post

 

I did suggest to the organisers a couple of years back that we should have a "peoples choice" award. Where the flyer that everyone gets on entry contains a tear off slip that the individual can deposit in a box (supplied by those who wish to enter) in the individual car they wish to vote for. The slips are added up and the winner announced. Simples...

The beauty is that this could also contain cars in the general parking area who wish to show off their beauty without the formality of the entry and apparent over scrutinising of the official competitions.

I will raise the point again when next I speak to Iain.   

You think there are problems just now, An entrant gets all their mates and their mates to vote on one car. ' Peoples mates choice' Doesn't work.

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1st Modified Class Ragley Hall SEP 18


mal jones
#83 Posted : 04 October 2018 13:45:32(UTC)
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Thank you Ian. I am not sure where and when it was tried but I know it did not work. Neither will picking a car from the members car park. I know that happened at Sandringham, But with over 2000 cars at our events it would take all day.  

Edited by user 04 October 2018 13:47:34(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Sonue
#84 Posted : 04 October 2018 14:00:14(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: mal jones Go to Quoted Post

[quote=harco;753135]

This is so sad to see, but makes me glad I did not even bother to enter as the whole judging thing sounds a bit too up its own a*** to me

The entrants are enthusiasts not professionals and should not made to be deflated because there is a slight mark on paintwork.

I did suggest to the organisers a couple of years back that we should have a "peoples choice" award. Where the flyer that everyone gets on entry contains a tear off slip that the individual can deposit in a box (supplied by those who wish to enter) in the individual car they wish to vote for. The slips are added up and the winner announced. Simples...

The beauty is that this could also contain cars in the general parking area who wish to show off their beauty without the formality of the entry and apparent over scrutinising of the official competitions.

I will raise the point again when next I speak to Iain. 

THE Peoples Choice was tried and it did not work.

If you think the whole judging think is a bit too up its own a***, perhaps you could try it yourself. Also could all posters look up the definition of the word COMPETITION.

If there id any one out there who thinks they can go a better job now is the time to stand up and be counted. Come to the AGM on the 20th and be counted.

Please please gentlemen. My original post stated:-

 

I don't blame the judges, they did a fantastic job as always. However, I do think the entry classification/categories need to be reconsidered. It is unjust to judge a lightly modified restored special edition against a car that has been totally overhauled and perhaps no longer resembles the original edition in any respect.

 

I really don't want people arguing and getting upset.

 

I explained that my first experience in the Competition was upsetting mainly because one individual decided to pick out all the faults on my car before the judging even began. I assume that he felt he was being helpful. However, the timing and delivery of this help was not best handled.

 

I will say this again: I do not blame the judges. They were all very friendly and mostly helpful. 

 

I recognise the judges are volunteers. I had a taste of judging at Goodwood earlier in the year and I can see how difficult it is to compare two cars in one class.

 

I would happily give my time to judge in the future. It is mostly enjoyable and rewarding.

I have tried to suggest that it is the categories/classes that would benefit from being tweaked. Currently the judges are working to a set of judging criteria and they must find that quite difficult to do. But please lets not blame the judges because that is the wrong way to move the matter forward if indeed there is the will to reconsider the categories.

 

Grant

 

 

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saz9961
#85 Posted : 04 October 2018 14:00:30(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: harco Go to Quoted Post

This is so sad to see, but makes me glad I did not even bother to enter as the whole judging thing sounds a bit too up its own a*** to me

The entrants are enthusiasts not professionals and should not made to be deflated because there is a slight mark on paintwork.

I did suggest to the organisers a couple of years back that we should have a "peoples choice" award. Where the flyer that everyone gets on entry contains a tear off slip that the individual can deposit in a box (supplied by those who wish to enter) in the individual car they wish to vote for. The slips are added up and the winner announced. Simples...

The beauty is that this could also contain cars in the general parking area who wish to show off their beauty without the formality of the entry and apparent over scrutinising of the official competitions.

I will raise the point again when next I speak to Iain.   

 

In practice, nominations from general parking would be impossible. Once upon a time I would make sure I took  a look at everyone's car, but now, with 2500 parked up, I didn't even attempt this.

saz9961
#86 Posted : 04 October 2018 14:03:48(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: mal jones Go to Quoted Post

[quote=harco;753135]

This is so sad to see, but makes me glad I did not even bother to enter as the whole judging thing sounds a bit too up its own a*** to me

The entrants are enthusiasts not professionals and should not made to be deflated because there is a slight mark on paintwork.

I did suggest to the organisers a couple of years back that we should have a "peoples choice" award. Where the flyer that everyone gets on entry contains a tear off slip that the individual can deposit in a box (supplied by those who wish to enter) in the individual car they wish to vote for. The slips are added up and the winner announced. Simples...

The beauty is that this could also contain cars in the general parking area who wish to show off their beauty without the formality of the entry and apparent over scrutinising of the official competitions.

I will raise the point again when next I speak to Iain. 

THE Peoples Choice was tried and it did not work.

If you think the whole judging think is a bit too up its own a***, perhaps you could try it yourself. Also could all posters look up the definition of the word COMPETITION.

If there id any one out there who thinks they can go a better job now is the time to stand up and be counted. Come to the AGM on the 20th and be counted.

 

I suspect that reads worse than the spirit it was intended.

 

 

Speedy aka Ian
#87 Posted : 04 October 2018 14:26:28(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Sonue Go to Quoted Post


 

I don't blame the judges, they did a fantastic job as always. However, I do think the entry classification/categories need to be reconsidered. It is unjust to judge a lightly modified restored special edition against a car that has been totally overhauled and perhaps no longer resembles the original edition in any respect.

 

 

 

I agree wholeheartedly that the choosing of class entered by the entrant is wrong.

The competitor is interested in competing with a likewise entrant not a car that doesn't resemble the class entered.

The competitor does not know the rule book back to front to establish their class but the head judge does.

When I was head judge I chose the class entered and had no complaint from the competitors that they were in the wrong class. Somehow over the last couple of years that has gone astray.

1st 'Modified Class' Bristol Spring Rally 2017
2nd Weston Park extravaganza April 2017
1st 'Modern Classic' Stafford Castle Classic Show July 2018
3rd 'Best Japanese Classic' Tatton Park Aug 18
1st Modified Class Ragley Hall SEP 18


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Warbird
#88 Posted : 04 October 2018 15:24:49(UTC)
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In the two comps that I have entered I was asked to enter which class my car fitted as per the rules of the club and list all my mods according to those on my car it stated that if the details were not correct for the class section that I had entered then it would be changed by the powers that be.

So if this is done then there should have been no problems but I think three of the cars in the lightly modified class looked pretty much standard but I do not know enough to argue about it.

As said by Grant I think the judges did a good job on the day and would like to thank all the organisers of the event for all the hard work.

Just so you all know my score sheet went as follows

 

Engine one deduction for discoloured radiator

Engine one deduction for slight mark on brake servo paint

Exterior one deduction for dirty fuel cap

 Interior one deduction for bonnet hinge fit

 Interior one deduction for slight paint scuff on front bumper

Interior one deduction for slight heal mark in drivers mat

Exterior one deduction for touch up on inside boot door, the only thing I can see is the standard grey primer below where the brake light is standard from factory

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Warbird
#89 Posted : 04 October 2018 15:55:45(UTC)
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On the subject of my radiator being slightly green/brown and about to explode any moment should I fit a standard plastic top again or am I better off fitting an alloy rad.

Just thought I would ask all you clever people what your thoughts were.

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Sonue
#90 Posted : 04 October 2018 16:09:17(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Warbird Go to Quoted Post

On the subject of my radiator being slightly green/brown and about to explode any moment should I fit a standard plastic top again or am I better off fitting an alloy rad.

Just thought I would ask all you clever people what your thoughts were.

 

I thought about this and decided that if the original Mazda radiator lasted 25 years and is still ok... that another Mazda radiator should be as good. It will certainly outlast me.

 

I took advantage of the MX5 Parts 10% discount (within 7 days after the Rally). 

 

Grant

 

Edited by user 04 October 2018 16:09:55(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Eunos Roadster S Limited.
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John M
#91 Posted : 04 October 2018 16:50:13(UTC)
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The main purpose of the competition is surely to provide a show?  Otherwise it could be held anywhere at any time without troubling the wider membership.  It's a bit like our village flower and produce show;  it's nice to win a prize for one's vegetables (the ones from the garden or allotment) but not everybody will meet the (rather arcane) criteria and a much larger number of people can enjoy marvelling at the giant onions.

In my usual way of stating the bleeding obvious, the judges are members too, ordinary MX-5 enthusiasts having a day out and doing something to help.  If they are charming and diplomatic (as I'm sure most of them are) then that's a bonus.

I looked at all the cars on display, it was part of enjoying the day.  I'm sorry I missed the prize-giving and the opportunity to applaud the entrants (not just the winners) but I don't have any curiosity as to which were the winning cars!

Thank you Grant, Barrie, Mark, Davy and all the others who entered their pride and joy;  also the show sec, scorekeepers, judges and other volunteers.

Next one is Elvington on 28th April - I'll be there, if spared of course.

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Sonue
#92 Posted : 04 October 2018 17:05:02(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: John M Go to Quoted Post

The main purpose of the competition is surely to provide a show?  Otherwise it could be held anywhere at any time without troubling the wider membership.  It's a bit like our village flower and produce show;  it's nice to win a prize for one's vegetables (the ones from the garden or allotment) but not everybody will meet the (rather arcane) criteria and a much larger number of people can enjoy marvelling at the giant onions.

I agree but the nature of a competition is also that the competitors enter to win.

 

Otherwise do away with the competition and just have a show.....just saying.

 

My wife likes Strictly Come Dancing and she loves the show but she also has the urge to see a winner.

Grant

 

Edited by user 04 October 2018 17:19:25(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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John M
#93 Posted : 04 October 2018 17:17:21(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Sonue Go to Quoted Post

 

I agree but the nature of a competition is also that the competitors enter to win.

Yes I get that and should have acknowledged it more obviously:)  I didn't mean to imply that it didn't matter to the entrants.

 

2017 Arctic #320
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alben
#94 Posted : 04 October 2018 18:53:17(UTC)
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Apologies if this has already been suggested or tried in the MX5 OC. In certain other marques there is judging against a standard which is set at Factory Originality. Cars are then graded as Gold, Silver or Bronze with suitable point boundaries set as required to mean that most entrants will get something and pointers where their vehicles need “work” to meet the ultimate standard. Additional classes are set for modified heavily modified and wtf mods with different criteria. On this basis a well used but totally original car could get a Gold certificate as a “survivor” to steal a classification from another makes Club. Maybe a similar system would work with some changes to the judging standard for our Club, just a thought to reward careful and enthusiastic owners and may encourage more entrants?... Trouble is some people and other Clubs take this whole competition thing a bit too far......
wolves mx5
#95 Posted : 04 October 2018 18:54:45(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Speedy aka Ian Go to Quoted Post

Originally Posted by: Sonue Go to Quoted Post


 

I don't blame the judges, they did a fantastic job as always. However, I do think the entry classification/categories need to be reconsidered. It is unjust to judge a lightly modified restored special edition against a car that has been totally overhauled and perhaps no longer resembles the original edition in any respect.

 

 

 

I agree wholeheartedly that the choosing of class entered by the entrant is wrong.

The competitor is interested in competing with a likewise entrant not a car that doesn't resemble the class entered.

The competitor does not know the rule book back to front to establish their class but the head judge does.

When I was head judge I chose the class entered and had no complaint from the competitors that they were in the wrong class. Somehow over the last couple of years that has gone astray.

I really feel this is something that the OC take onboard and change after Ragley.

The perfect example being the MK3 lightly modded class. According to the rules the OC should have put Barrie's stunning Mk3 into modified class as it doesn't have stock exterior colour or stock interior finishes. He would have been in the arena getting his trophy from Fuzz which is what his car and his efforts deserved......

 

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DonT
#96 Posted : 04 October 2018 19:31:37(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: harco Go to Quoted Post

This is so sad to see, but makes me glad I did not even bother to enter as the whole judging thing sounds a bit too up its own a*** to me

The entrants are enthusiasts not professionals and should not made to be deflated because there is a slight mark on paintwork.

I did suggest to the organisers a couple of years back that we should have a "peoples choice" award. Where the flyer that everyone gets on entry contains a tear off slip that the individual can deposit in a box (supplied by those who wish to enter) in the individual car they wish to vote for. The slips are added up and the winner announced. Simples...

The beauty is that this could also contain cars in the general parking area who wish to show off their beauty without the formality of the entry and apparent over scrutinising of the official competitions.

I will raise the point again when next I speak to Iain.   

This was carried many years ago, Lincoln if I remember correctly.

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saz9961
#97 Posted : 04 October 2018 19:40:33(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: alben Go to Quoted Post
wtf mods.

 

I vote that this is introduced as a new judging category from next year.

 

Alongside the FT Shield

harco
#98 Posted : 05 October 2018 08:24:28(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: mal jones Go to Quoted Post

If you think the whole judging think is a bit too up its own a***, perhaps you could try it yourself. 

 

Happily, but If I were to do that everyone who entered would get the prize just for having the courage to enter. 

 

 

Putting my carbon foot down !

Spirited Green Sport Black NC2



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mal jones
#99 Posted : 05 October 2018 09:13:08(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Speedy aka Ian Go to Quoted Post

Originally Posted by: Sonue Go to Quoted Post


 

I don't blame the judges, they did a fantastic job as always. However, I do think the entry classification/categories need to be reconsidered. It is unjust to judge a lightly modified restored special edition against a car that has been totally overhauled and perhaps no longer resembles the original edition in any respect.

 

 

 

I agree wholeheartedly that the choosing of class entered by the entrant is wrong.

The competitor is interested in competing with a likewise entrant not a car that doesn't resemble the class entered.

The competitor does not know the rule book back to front to establish their class but the head judge does.

When I was head judge I chose the class entered and had no complaint from the competitors that they were in the wrong class. Somehow over the last couple of years that has gone astray.

 

Iain, When I took over from you I too put cars in the classes that I thought they should be in, however, I had loads of trouble where contestants who thought they were in the wrong class, This then became a thread on here that got very nasty, that is why I changed it to the entrant put there class on when entering. With the new online entering system we could not do it any other way. If a judge thinks the car is in the wrong class they can, and have, marked it down.

On the 20th of this month is the AGM, if members feel so strong about it then I suggest the put them selves forward to take on the job as competition coordinator.

 

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Sonue
#100 Posted : 05 October 2018 09:23:26(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: mal jones Go to Quoted Post

Originally Posted by: Speedy aka Ian Go to Quoted Post

Originally Posted by: Sonue Go to Quoted Post


 

I don't blame the judges, they did a fantastic job as always. However, I do think the entry classification/categories need to be reconsidered. It is unjust to judge a lightly modified restored special edition against a car that has been totally overhauled and perhaps no longer resembles the original edition in any respect.

 

 

 

I agree wholeheartedly that the choosing of class entered by the entrant is wrong.

The competitor is interested in competing with a likewise entrant not a car that doesn't resemble the class entered.

The competitor does not know the rule book back to front to establish their class but the head judge does.

When I was head judge I chose the class entered and had no complaint from the competitors that they were in the wrong class. Somehow over the last couple of years that has gone astray.

 

Iain, When I took over from you I too put cars in the classes that I thought they should be in, however, I had loads of trouble where contestants who thought they were in the wrong class, This then became a thread on here that got very nasty, that is why I changed it to the entrant put there class on when entering. With the new online entering system we could not do it any other way. If a judge thinks the car is in the wrong class they can, and have, marked it down.

On the 20th of this month is the AGM, if members feel so strong about it then I suggest the put them selves forward to take on the job as competition coordinator.

 

Please accept my apologies for raising the matter of the classifications.

 

This has all become too personal now and upsetting for people.

 

I have never made any accusations of impropriety nor suggested that judges should chose the class according to entry etc. I have maintained throughout that the judges do a marvellous job within the constraints of the systems that are in place.

 

My initial point, which I now wish to retract because it is clearly upsetting, was that the classifications appeared to be incorrect/restrictive whatever you call it.

 

I will not be entering again so I have no interest in the conclusion of this thread and suggest a moderator closes it.

 

Grant

 

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